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07. 10 2008

[00:00:14] <heikkit> yeah, I've heard of glasshammer as well
[00:00:20] <aa_> cool
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[00:00:42] <aa_> well, not suggesting you use it, but there is some example code in there
[00:00:55] <heikkit> I don't have much experience with web frameworks, which is why I am kind of looking at several and writing little apps with each
[00:01:16] <mitsuhiko> apollo13: http://tugtools.pocoo.org/calimport/
[00:01:46] <mitsuhiko> That forwards the login details to TUG so that you can set up a remote calendar in thunderbird/evolution :)
[00:02:22] <hads> heikkit: Yeah, I assing settings to the app and then get that from the local_manager
[00:02:36] <hads> s/assing/assign/
[00:03:09] <heikkit> ok, I guess I need to read a bit more on that, as it wasn't completely clear to me first time around
[00:03:52] <hads> Yeah, took me a little bit to figure out the first time too, works well though.
[00:04:11] <empty> where is glasshammer?
[00:04:15] <aa_> glashammer.org
[00:04:22] * empty fears he recreated a glashammer
[00:04:42] <aa_> unfortunately I think in theory thread local is going to eb broken when you have mutiple application composition
[00:05:11] <aa_> mitsuhiko: any views on something like pylons' stackedobjectproxy
[00:08:09] <empty> okay I didn't recreate glashammer. wheew
[00:08:16] <empty> there's some cool stuff in there though
[00:08:36] <aa_> empty: what is your project? is it open?
[00:08:47] <aa_> empty: I stole most of glashammer from zine anyway
[00:09:08] <aa_> so I would love to steal some stuff from you too :D
[00:09:34] <empty> aa_: not really but will be at some point. I didn't create it to create a framework, but just to easily tie stuff together.
[00:09:49] <aa_> ah, ok
[00:10:03] <empty> I'm using SA, werkzeug, and Mako
[00:10:14] <empty> although the template thing is plugable, because I was using Jinja2
[00:11:03] <empty> good work aa_
[00:11:20] * mitsuhiko <3 werkzeug
[00:11:23] <mitsuhiko> http://tugtools.pocoo.org/calimport/source.py
[00:11:29] <mitsuhiko> beats php in that case :D
[00:11:57] <empty> mitsuhiko: nice
[00:12:13] <mitsuhiko> now my thunderbird can import my university's calendar on the fly :)
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[00:35:59] <ronny> mitsuhiko: neat
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[07:11:23] <Eloff> I'm in the right place to discuss Jinja?
[07:15:37] <Eloff> Does Jinja run on other Python implementations like Jython, IronPython, PyPy?
[07:16:58] <Eloff> Looking at the docs it seems like it still uses the nasty hack of setting tb_next on traceback objects. That, at the least, will not run outside CPython, so errors will be somewhat wierd.
[07:18:51] <hads> Eloff: Yeah, this is the right place.
[07:19:13] <hads> As for your other question I don't know.
[07:21:42] <Eloff> np, I'll stick around in case someone knows about this.
[07:22:15] <Eloff> I noticed in a commit comment something about "disabled IronPython support until new lexer is finished"
[07:22:25] <Eloff> Is the new lexer finished?
[07:35:41] <mitsuhiko> Eloff: ironpython is a very incompatible python implementation
[07:35:45] <mitsuhiko> support for that won't be coming for a while :(
[07:35:47] <mitsuhiko> jython and pypy should wor
[07:35:51] <mitsuhiko> +k
[07:38:19] <Eloff> mitsuhiko: I find that hard to beleive, I've used IronPython on a daily basis for the last 6 months. If it can run on Jython, I'm positive it can be run on IronPython. Are there any areas in particular that you know are troublesome?
[07:38:55] <mitsuhiko> type.__call__ is broken, re is incompatible to python's re and the standard library is missing
[07:39:51] <mitsuhiko> so. gtg, back in three hours
[07:41:34] <Eloff> ok, well they're being very aggressive about fixing blocking issues, I'd be willing to work on getting Jinja running well on IronPython if someone here will help me. I have plenty of IronPython experience, but I'll need help understanding Jinja.
[08:04:16] <hads> Eloff: mitsuhiko is your man there
[08:07:42] <Eloff> I'm going to start this week and get as many of the tests to pass as possible under IronPython. Hopefully Jinja doesn't use anything very fancy for unittests, nose will probably work, but I don't think py.test will
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[09:55:52] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: boo
[09:56:18] <asmodai> birkenfeld / mitsuhiko : no ideas when the coins will be delivered. Still waiting for my own as well.
[10:26:20] <asmodai> Yes, Patrick Stewart in Dr Who!
[10:48:36] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: nice political party result for you. Reminds me of my own in NL.
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[11:51:10] <saptah_> hi
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[13:08:29] <prencher> over here asmodai
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[13:23:40] <asmodai> prencher: oh hush
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[14:29:36] <mitsuhiko> Eloff: it uses py.test currently, but it shouldn't be too hard to port it to nose
[14:29:38] <mitsuhiko> i don't have the time currently unfortunately
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[15:39:50] <_paneb> one of my genshi templates is supposed to display a list of items; when the list is empty, i would like to say that it is empty, rather than not show anything. i've used the py:if directive, so in this situation i would need 2 py:if's? one to avoid rendering an empty list, and another to render an element with "The list is empty" as content?
[15:45:52] <mitsuhiko> <ul py:strip="seq"><li py:for="item in seq">...</li></ul>
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[16:01:19] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: \o/
[16:04:27] <mitsuhiko> woa. reddit is full of mono haters
[16:04:38] <ronny> lol
[16:06:17] <prencher> back from another camp i see mitsuhiko
[16:06:25] <prencher> what microsoft technologies do you bring us this time
[16:06:29] <prencher> com?
[16:08:49] <asmodai> com+?
[16:08:55] <aa_> com.NET
[16:08:59] <asmodai> He has been assimilated.
[16:09:07] <prencher> resistance IS futile
[16:09:07] <asmodai> I wonder
[16:09:17] <asmodai> should I point out Python 2.6 was released to him?
[16:09:26] <aa_> hey, IIS is a pretty nice platform
[16:09:28] <prencher> he might have a mental breakdown
[16:09:43] <prencher> if you put iron in front of it, asmodai, it'll be fine
[16:09:51] <prencher> "look at what the latest ironpython prototype can do"
[16:09:56] <prencher> "coming in 2 years"
[16:10:00] <asmodai> no no, he actually spoke ill of IP
[16:10:14] <asmodai> << mitsuhiko>> Eloff: ironpython is a very incompatible python implementation
[16:10:15] <aa_> IP rocks though
[16:11:54] <asmodai> it's nice to use :)
[16:13:51] <aa_> yeah, it really is
[16:14:03] <aa_> and there is ironclad now...
[16:14:20] <aa_> which nearly allows you to use c extensions for cpython from ip
[16:14:30] <aa_> nearly as in "it nearly works"
[16:16:46] <prencher> my flux capacitor nearly works
[16:17:17] <aa_> right, this more nearly works
[16:17:29] <aa_> like it actually works
[16:17:39] <aa_> except sometimes
[16:17:45] <aa_> a bit like, umm.... WTForms
[16:18:16] <prencher> yeah wtforms is pretty crummy when used in conjunction with crap like glashammer
[16:18:35] <prencher> it's good design stands out like a sore thumb
[16:18:44] * aa_ chuckles.
[16:18:48] <aa_> Fair point indeed!
[16:22:38] * prencher throws rocks
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[16:23:07] <prencher> i did that
[16:23:08] <prencher> all me
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[16:23:46] <asmodai> lies
[16:23:53] <prencher> it was my rock that disconnected him
[16:23:56] <prencher> you can't prove otherwise
[16:24:12] <asmodai> by asking Kaelten
[16:24:20] <prencher> he wouldn't know, he blacked out!
[16:24:26] <prencher> empty - stop being lazy and release #40 already :P
[16:25:46] <Kaelten> hrm?
[16:26:02] <prencher> see
[16:26:05] <prencher> he doesn't have a clue
[16:27:43] <prencher> so Kaelten, lost all your wowace users yet, since ZOMGEVERYBODYHATESIT!!!!111111(said the vocal minority)
[16:27:49] <prencher> ?
[16:27:59] <Kaelten> na
[16:28:09] <Kaelten> I lost all my hair responding to people
[16:28:16] <prencher> even down there?
[16:28:20] <prencher> that's rough
[16:28:26] <Kaelten> yess, all my leg hair is gone
[16:28:38] <prencher> i was talking about your toes
[16:29:03] <asmodai> I like wowace
[16:29:24] <asmodai> had the wowaceupdater crash a few times recently though
[16:30:57] <prencher> wowaceupdater is soon going away because Kaelten is a cheap bastard!
[16:31:21] <Kaelten> prencher: cheap bastard?
[16:31:30] <Kaelten> it costs more than I make a month doing programming to keep running
[16:31:35] <prencher> see
[16:31:37] <prencher> cheapass =(
[16:33:06] <asmodai> useful update mechanism though
[16:33:38] <prencher> curseclient does the same but stuffs about 8 billion (according to forum post, so it's legit!) ads down your throat
[16:44:16] <asmodai> so that means even more bandwidth? :D
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[16:45:17] <birkenfeld> asmodai!
[16:45:23] <asmodai> hey birkje
[16:45:26] <birkenfeld> I lost my RG today in the subway
[16:45:30] <asmodai> noooooooooooooooo
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[16:45:38] <asmodai> heresy!
[16:46:14] <asmodai> at least someone is now getting a book that's cool
[16:46:15] <birkenfeld> another one is already ordered
[16:47:30] <asmodai> how far along are you?
[16:49:07] <birkenfeld> I'd just started the chapter where the Malazans appear
[16:49:21] <asmodai> ahh
[16:49:26] <asmodai> it's getting interesting :)
[16:49:40] <prencher> spoil it for him
[16:49:51] <prencher> the guy dies birkenfeld!
[16:49:56] <asmodai> birkenfeld: So you understand my Emurlahn reference the other day?
[16:50:06] <birkenfeld> not yet
[16:50:14] <asmodai> you passed it already
[16:50:48] <birkenfeld> then I missed it
[16:51:12] <asmodai> yes!
[16:51:35] <prencher> exclamation!
[16:52:02] <birkenfeld> care to point a zaunpfahl?
[16:52:32] * asmodai throws in a ? for good measure
[16:52:47] <birkenfeld> :)
[16:53:04] <asmodai> anyway
[16:53:06] <asmodai> off to home
[16:53:07] <birkenfeld> in german, if somebody doesn't get something and you give a very detailed clue, it's called "mit dem zaunpfahl winken"
[17:02:59] <ronny> btw, most of the pocoo projects use short license notices in files, are those actually ok
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[17:56:40] <birkenfeld> ronny: why not?
[17:57:35] <ronny> birkenfeld: well, legal fubar is weird
[17:57:58] <birkenfeld> ronny: not my concern
[18:08:50] <birkenfeld> mitsuhiko: ping
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[18:20:13] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: pong
[18:20:45] <birkenfeld> mitsuhiko: there's a bug about the ast module in the tracker, #4067
[18:21:17] <mitsuhiko> um
[18:21:27] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: why are there nodes without _attributes?
[18:21:43] <birkenfeld> my name is rabbit and I know nothing
[18:23:49] <asmodai> lol
[18:24:06] <asmodai> smart lil' rabbit
[18:24:21] <birkenfeld> asmodai: so, where's my zaunpfahl?
[18:24:54] <asmodai> !
[18:25:12] <asmodai> birkenfeld: well,
[18:25:57] <asmodai> pg 615
[18:26:09] <asmodai> a page with Beak and his candles
[18:26:24] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: how should i modify it? add _attributes to all nodes or add a workaround in the code?
[18:26:31] * mitsuhiko prefers the former
[18:26:39] <birkenfeld> asmodai: i'm a bit short on pages right now
[18:27:18] <birkenfeld> mitsuhiko: is it okay for the nodes not to have _attributes?
[18:28:42] <saptah_> bye
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[18:29:15] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: i would just add an empty _attributes to AST
[18:29:28] <mitsuhiko> and an empty _fields
[18:30:22] <birkenfeld> yes, why not...
[18:32:00] <asmodai> for my dear birkenfeld : Beak shook his head. 'Deepest blue of Rashan -- that's their candle, mostly. Not as deep as Kurald Galain. They call it Kurald Emurlahn, but these ones here, well, there's skuzzy foam on that blue, like what sits on waves outside a harbour. [...]'
[18:33:27] <birkenfeld> hmmmm
[18:33:33] <birkenfeld> I think I hadn't read this yet
[18:33:43] <asmodai> nothing vital as far as I know
[18:33:46] <birkenfeld> nope
[18:33:50] <asmodai> just an interesting observation
[18:34:34] <mitsuhiko> hmm. ast.AST has no dict
[18:35:07] <mitsuhiko> and i guess if i add a setter or getter for _fields i break stuff :)
[18:37:13] <asmodai> do it!
[18:37:14] <asmodai> I dare ya!
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[18:42:17] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: how do i call asdl_c.py?
[18:59:17] <birkenfeld> "call"?
[18:59:39] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: the script. but i found it now
[18:59:59] <mitsuhiko> python Parser/asdl_c.py -h Python Parser/Python.asdl
[19:03:17] <birkenfeld> ah yes. it's that script
[19:05:03] <mitsuhiko> that's weird. PyType_Ready is never called there
[19:05:05] <mitsuhiko> i wonder why
[19:05:24] <mitsuhiko> what adds the tp_dict to the types?
[19:22:09] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/87337/
[19:22:21] <mitsuhiko> any ideas why python fails importing ast that way?
[19:22:58] <mitsuhiko> from _ast import *
[19:22:58] <mitsuhiko> SystemError: null argument to internal routine
[19:26:55] <mitsuhiko> (i added add_ast_fields() and the call to it)
[19:43:30] <mitsuhiko> okay. patch submitted: http://bugs.python.org/issue4067
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[20:44:02] <prencher> birkenfeld - you guys hosting bugs.python? it's at hetzner i see
[20:44:25] <birkenfeld> mitsuhiko: thanks
[20:44:38] <birkenfeld> prencher: it's hosted by a south african company which happens to have servers at hetzner .)
[20:44:58] <prencher> hehe.. yeah i know them
[20:45:10] <prencher> but i meant.. your server?
[20:46:10] <mitsuhiko> birkenfeld: is the patch okay?
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[21:06:16] <Leonidas> prencher: no, I don't think that it's pocoo
[21:47:06] <birkenfeld> mitsuhiko: didn't look yet
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[21:57:46] <birkenfeld> sigh, estimated delivery in 3 weeks
[21:57:59] <aa_> birkenfeld: you having a baby?
[21:58:11] <birkenfeld> rofl
[21:58:31] <birkenfeld> asmodai: seems I finally have the time to finish those discworld books
[21:59:06] <birkenfeld> aa_: not right now, no time for that
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[22:01:44] <asmodai> birkenfeld: heh
[22:01:51] <asmodai> I never liked Discworld
[22:02:12] <birkenfeld> specific reason or general dislike?
[22:02:13] <aa_> asmodai: for real?
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[22:03:05] <aa_> even Thief of Time ?
[22:04:25] <asmodai> It's not my style.
[22:04:36] <asmodai> I like humour, but cannot seem to enjoy Terry's style
[22:05:11] <aa_> I guess it's all parody, so all the humour is "stolen" from somewhere
[22:07:18] <welterde> asmodai: which one did you read?
[22:07:46] <aa_> my favourite modern stuff is Iain M Banks. Sci fi.
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